9. But let that go, and now answer to this: if those things which Plato and Plotinus have said concerning God are true, is it enough for thee to know God as they knew him? A. Even allowing that those things which they have said are true, does it follow at once that they knew them? For many copiously utter what they do not know, as I myself have said that I desired to know all those things for which I prayed, which I should not desire if I knew them already: yet I was none the less able to enumerate them all. For I have enumerated not what I intellectually comprehended, but things which I have gathered from all sides and entrusted to my memory, and to which I yield as ample a faith as I am able: but to know is another thing. R. Tell me, I pray, do you at least know in geometry what a line is? A. So much I certainly know. R. Nor in professing so do you stand in awe of the Academicians? A. In no wise. For they, as wise men, would not run the risk of erring: but I am not wise. Therefore as yet I do not shrink from professing the knowledge of those things which I have come to know. But if, as I desire, I should ever have attained to wisdom, I will do what I may find her to suggest. R. I except not thereto: but, I had begun to inquire, as you know a line, do you also know a ball, or, as they say, a sphere? A. I do. R. Both alike, or one more, one less? A. Just alike. I am altogether certain of both. R. Have you grasped these by the senses or the intellect? A. Nay, I have essayed the senses in this matter as a ship. For after they had carried me to the place I was aiming for, and I had dismissed them, and was now, as it were, left on dry ground, where I began to turn these things over in thought, the oscillations of the senses long continued to swim in my brain. Wherefore it seems to me that it would be easier to sail on dry land, than to learn geometry by the senses, although young beginners seem to derive some help from them. R. Then you do not hesitate to call whatever acquaintance you have with such things, Knowledge? A. Not if the Stoics permit, who attribute knowledge only to the Wise Man. Certainly I maintain myself to have the perception of these things, which they concede even to folly: but neither am I at all in any great fear of the stoics: unquestionably I hold those things which thou hast questioned me of in knowledge: proceed now till I see to what end thou questionest me of them. R. Be not too eager, we are not pressed for time. But give strict heed, lest you should make some rash concession. I would fain give thee the joy of things wherein thou fearest not to slip, and dost thou enjoin haste, as in a matter of no moment? A. God grant the event as thou forecastest it. Therefore question at thy will, and rebuke me more sharply if I err so again.

CAPUT IV. Certa scientia quae.

9. Sed quid ad nos? Nunc illud responde: si ea quae de Deo dixerunt Plato et Plotinus vera sunt, satisne tibi est ita Deum scire, ut illi sciebant? A. Non continuo, si ea quae dixerunt, vera sunt, etiam scisse illos ea necesse est. Nam multi copiose dicunt quae nesciunt, ut ego ipse omnia quae oravi, me dixi scire cupere, quod non cuperem si jam scirem: num igitur eo minus illa dicere potui? Dixi enim non quae intellectu comprehendi, sed quae undecumque collecta memoriae mandavi, et quibus accommodavi quantam potui fidem: scire autem aliud est. R. Dic, quaeso, scisne saltem in geometrica disciplina quid sit linea? A. Istud plane scio. R. Nec in ista professione vereris Academicos? A. Non omnino. Illi enim sapientem errare noluerunt; ego autem sapiens non sum. Itaque adhuc non vereor earum rerum quas novi, scientiam profiteri. Quod si, ut cupio, pervenero ad sapientiam, faciam quod illa monuerit. R. Nihil renuo: sed, ut quaerere coeperam, ita ut lineam nosti, nosti etiam pilam quam sphaeram nominant? A. Novi. R. Aeque utrumque nosti, an aliud alio magis aut minus? A. Aeque prorsus. Nam in utroque nihil fallor. R. Quid haec, sensibusne percepisti, an intellectu? A. Imo sensus in hoc negotio quasi navim sum expertus. Nam cum ipsi me ad locum quo tendebam pervexerint, ubi eos dimisi, et jam velut in solo positus coepi cogitatione ista volvere, diu mihi vestigia titubarunt. Quare citius mihi videtur in terra posse navigari, quam geometricam sensibus percipi, quamvis primo discentes aliquantum adjuvare videantur. R. Ergo istarum rerum disciplinam, si qua tibi est, non dubitas vocari scientiam? A. Non, si Stoici sinant, qui scientiam tribuunt nulli, nisi sapienti. Perceptionem sane istorum me habere non nego, quam etiam stultitiae concedunt: sed nec istos quidquam pertimesco. Prorsus haec quae interrogasti scientia teneo: perge modo; videam quorsum ista quaeris. R. Ne propera, otiosi sumus. Intentus tantum accipe, ne quid temere concedas. Gaudentem te studeo reddere de rebus quibus nullum casum pertimescas, et quasi parvum negotium sit, praecipitare jubes? A. Ita Deus faxit, ut dicis. Itaque arbitrio tuo rogato, et objurgato gravius, si quidquam tale posthac.