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De sancta trinitate

OF OUR FATHER AMONG THE SAINTS ATHANASIUS, A DIALOGUE CONCERNING THE TRINITY, IN WHICH AN ORTHODOX AND AN ANOMOEAN DISCUSS

AN ARIAN. ANOMOEAN.

Are you a Christian? Orthodox. Very much so. Anom. What is Christianity? Orth. But the one thing was necessary to say, the other is not safe. Anom. Why? Orth. For to say that I am a servant of Christ, it is necessary to say; but what Christianity is, is not safe, unless I know who is asking; lest I be found throwing what is holy to the dogs, or the pearls before swine. For if you ask me, 'Are you one of the faithful or a cat 28.1117 echumen,' I readily say what I am; but what it is to be one of the faithful, I do not say, lest he who asks be a Jew. Anom. But I who ask you tell you that I am a Christian. Orth. It was not enough for you that I said I am a Christian; nor is it enough for me that you say you are a Christian; unless you tell me what Christianity is. And even then you are not entirely a Christian; for to know what Christianity is, this is not to be a Christian; since neither is knowing what Judaism is to be a Jew; nor is knowing what Hellenism is, this is not to be a Greek. Anom. Do you know God? Orth. Yes. Anom.As he knows himself? Orth. No. Anom. Then you do not know him? Orth. I know him, as it is possible for a human nature to know. Anom. So men know him in one way, and he himself in another? Orth. Very much so. Anom. How? Orthod. Because, unless one possesses the same knowledge as God, it is impossible to know him as he knows himself. But it is impossible to possess the same knowledge as God, not being of the same essence as him. But we are not of the same essence as him. Therefore, we do not have the same knowledge as him. Anom. If, then, the Son wishes to reveal to someone, is he not able? Orth. He reveals, but he does not reveal to him in such a way as he knows himself; but as the one who is counted worthy is able to know. Because to Ezekiel he was known from the loins and upward as electrum; but to Daniel as the ancient of days; but to Isaiah as covered by the seraphim. Anomoean. How then do you know him, as electrum, or as the ancient of days? Orth. Having learned from them I know, that he is above all things that were made known to them. For if he were not above them, he would not have appeared differently; and for this reason the Only-Begotten says: "No one has ever seen God." Anom. Is seeing one thing, and knowing another? Orth. In the case of God there is not one thing and another; for he himself took seeing for knowing, saying: "Have I been with you so long a time, and you have not known me? Philip, he who has seen me has seen my Father." Anom. If you know that he is above appearances, you know what he is. Orth. You say something ridiculous; for, because I know that the soul is above visible bodies, do I also know what a soul is? Anom. I know him in such a way as he knows himself. Orth. What then is God? Anom. The unbegotten itself. Orth. To know that he is unbegotten, this is to know God. Anom. Very much so. Orth. Then both Jews and Greeks know this. You have then the same knowledge as the Jews and the Greeks, who do not know him. For that he who does not know the Son does not know the Father, the Gospels have said. Anom. Does God not 28.1120 then know himself as unbegotten? Orth. But this is not his essence, which we have comprehended. Anom. Do you say one divinity, and three hypostases? Orth. Your former knowledge has indeed been refuted. But I will answer you thus also: Hypostasis is one thing, and divinity another; not as one thing and another thing, but as a different something

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De sancta trinitate

ΤΟΥ ΕΝ ΑΓΙΟΙΣ ΠΑΤΡΟΣ ΗΜΩΝ ΑΘΑΝΑΣΙΟΥ ∆ΙΑΛΟΓΟΣ ΠΕΡΙ ΤΗΣ ΤΡΙΑ∆ΟΣ, ΕΝ Ω ∆ΙΑΛΕΓΟΝΤΑΙ ΟΡΘΟ∆ΟΞΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΟΜΟΙΟΣ

ΑΡΕΙΑΝΙΣΤΗΣ. ΑΝΟΜΟΙΟΣ.

Χριστιανὸς εἶ; Ὀρθόδοξος. Καὶ πάνυ. Ἀνόμ. Τί ἐστιν ὁ Χριστιανισμός; Ὀρθ. Ἀλλὰ τὸ μὲν ἦν ἀναγκαῖον εἰπεῖν, τὸ δὲ οὐκ ἀσφαλές. Ἀνόμ. ∆ιὰ τί; Ὀρθ. Τὸ μὲν γὰρ εἰπεῖν, ὅτι Χριστοῦ δοῦλός εἰμι, ἀναγκαῖον εἰπεῖν· τὸ δὲ, τί ἐστιν ὁ Χριστιανισμὸς, οὐκ ἀσφαλὲς, ἐὰν μὴ γνῶ τίς ἐστιν ὁ ἐρωτῶν· μήποτε εὑρεθῶ βάλλων τὰ ἅγια τοῖς κυσὶν, ἢ τοὺς μαργαρίτας ἔμπροσθεν τῶν χοίρων. Καὶ γὰρ, ἐάν με ἐρωτήσῃς, Πιστὸς εἶ ἢ κατ 28.1117 ηχούμενος, ἑτοίμως λέγω ὅ εἰμι· τί δέ ἐστι τὸ εἶναι πιστὸν, οὐ λέγω, μήποτε καὶ Ἰουδαῖος ᾖ ὁ ἐρω τῶν. Ἀνόμ. Ἀλλ' ἐγώ σοι λέγω ὁ ἐρωτῶν σε, ὅτι Χριστιανός εἰμι. Ὀρθ. Οὐκ ἤρκεσέ σοι τὸ εἰπεῖν ἐμὲ, ὅτι Χριστιανός εἰμι· οὐδ' ἐμοὶ ἀρκεῖ τὸ εἰπεῖν σε, ὅτι Χριστιανὸς εἶ· ἐὰν μή μοι εἴπῃς, τί ἐστι Χρι στιανισμός. Καὶ τότε δὲ οὐ πάντως εἶ Χριστιανός· οὐδὲ γὰρ τὸ εἰδέναι τί ἐστιν ὁ Χριστιανισμὸς, τοῦτό ἐστιν εἶναι Χριστιανόν· ἐπειδὴ οὐδὲ τὸ εἰδέναι τί ἐστιν Ἰουδαϊσμός ἐστι τὸ εἶναι Ἰουδαῖον· οὐδὲ τὸ εἰδέναι τί ἐστιν Ἑλληνισμὸς, τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ εἶναι Ἕλληνα. Ἀνόμ. Οἶδας τὸν Θεόν; Ὀρθ. Ναί. Ἀνόμ.Ὡς αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν οἶδεν; Ὀρθ. Οὔ. Ἀνόμ. Οὐκοῦνοὐκ οἶδας αὐτόν; Ὀρθ. Οἶδα αὐτὸν, ὡς ἐνδέχεται ἀνθρώπου φύσει εἰδέναι. Ἀνόμ. Ἄλλως οὖν αὐτὸν ἴσασιν οἱ ἄνθρωποι, καὶ ἄλλως αὐτὸς ἑαυτόν; Ὀρθ. Καὶ πάνυ. Ἀνόμ. Πῶς; Ὀρθόδ. Ὅτι, ἐὰν μή τιτὴν αὐτὴν τῷ Θεῷ κτήσηται γνῶσιν, ἀδύνατον γνῶναι αὐτὸν, ὡς αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν οἶδε. Τὴν δὲ αὐτὴν τῷ Θεῷ κτήσασθαι γνῶσιν ἀδύνατον, μὴ τῆς αὐτῆς αὐτῷ ὄντα οὐσίας. Οὐκ ἐσμὲν δὲ τῆς αὐτῆς αὐτῷ οὐσίας. Οὐκ ἄρα τὴν αὐτὴν αὐτῷ ἔχομεν γνῶσιν. Ἀνόμ. Ἐὰν οὖν θέλῃ ὁ Υἱὸς ἀποκαλύψαι τινι, οὐ δύναται; Ὀρθ. Ἀποκαλύπτει μὲν, ἀλλ' οὐχ οὕτως αὐτῷ ἀποκαλύπτει, ὡς αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν οἶδεν· ἀλλ' ὡς δύναται γνῶναι ὁ κατ αξιούμενος. ∆ιότι τῷ μὲν Ἰεζεχιὴλ ἀπὸ ὀσφύος καὶ ἄνω ἠλέκτρινος ἐγνώσθη· τῷ δὲ ∆ανιὴλ παλαιὸς ἡμερῶν· τῷ δὲ Ἡσαΐᾳ καλυπτόμενος ὑπὸ τῶν σερα φίμ. Ἀνόμοιος. Σὺ οὖν πῶς αὐτὸν οἶδας, ὡς ἠλέκτρι νον, ἢ ὡς παλαιὸν τῶν ἡμερῶν; Ὀρθ. Παρ' αὐτῶν μαθὼν οἶδα, ὅτι ὑπὲρ πάντα ἐστὶ τὰ γνωρισθέντα αὐτοῖς. Εἰ μὴ γὰρ ἦν ὑπὲρ αὐτὰ, οὐκ ἂν διαφόρως ἐφαίνετο· καὶ διὰ τοῦτο ὁ Μονογενὴς λέγει· «Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακε πώποτε.» Ἀνόμ. Ἄλλο ἐστὶ τὸ ἑωρακέναι, καὶ ἄλλο τὸ ἐγνωκέναι; Ὀρθ. Ἐπὶ Θεοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν ἄλλο καὶ ἄλλο· αὐτὸς γὰρ τὴν θεωρίαν ἐπὶ τῆς γνώσεως ἔλαβε, λέγων· «Τοσοῦτον χρόνον μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰμι, καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωκάς με; Φίλιππε, ὁ ἑωρα κὼς ἐμὲ ἑώρακε τὸν Πατέρα μου.» Ἀνόμ. Εἰ οἶδας, ὅτι ὑπὲρ τὰ φαινόμενά ἐστιν, οἶδας τί ἐστιν. Ὀρθ. Γελοῖον λέγεις· μὴ γὰρ, ἐπειδὴ οἶδα, ὅτι ὑπὲρ τὰ φαινόμενα σώματά ἐστιν ἡ ψυχὴ, οἶδα καὶ τί ἐστι ψυχή; Ἀνόμ. Ἐγὼ οὕτως αὐτὸν οἶδα, ὡς αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν οἶδεν. Ὀρθ. Τί οὖν ἐστιν ὁ Θεός; Ἀνόμ. Αὐτὸ τὸ ἀγέννητον. Ὀρθ. Τὸ εἰδέναι, ὅτι ἀγέννητός ἐστι, τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ εἰδέναι τὸν Θεόν. Ἀνόμ. Καὶ πάνυ. Ὀρθ. Ἴσασιν οὖν καὶ Ἰουδαῖοι καὶ Ἕλνες τοῦτο. Τὴν αὐτὴν ἄρα τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις καὶ τοῖς Ἕλλησιν ἔχεις γνῶσιν, τοῖς μὴ γινώσκουσιν αὐτόν. Ὅτι γὰρ ὁ μὴ γινώσκων τὸν Υἱὸν οὐ γινώσκει τὸν Πατέρα, τὰ Εὐαγγέλια εἰρήκασιν. Ἀνόμ. Οὐκ οἶδεν 28.1120 οὖν ὁ Θεὸς ἀγέννητον ἑαυτόν; Ὀρθ. Ἀλλ' οὐ τοῦτό ἐστιν αὐτοῦ ἡ οὐσία, ὃ κατειλήφαμεν. Ἀνόμ. Μίαν λέγεις θεότητα, καὶ τρεῖς ὑποστάσεις; Ὀρθ. Λέλυται μέν σου ἡ πρότερον γνῶσις. Ἀποκρινοῦμαι δέ σοι καὶ οὕτως· Ἄλλο ἐστὶν ὑπόστασις, καὶ ἄλλο θεότης· οὐχ ὡς ἄλλο πρᾶγμα καὶ ἄλλο, ἀλλ' ὡς ἄλλο τι ση