The Refutation of All Heresies.
Chapter I.—Thales His Physics and Theology Founder of Greek Astronomy.
Chapter III.—Empedocles His Twofold Cause Tenet of Transmigration.
Chapter IV.—Heraclitus His Universal Dogmatism His Theory of Flux Other Systems.
Chapter V.—Anaximander His Theory of the Infinite His Astronomic Opinions His Physics.
Chapter IX.—Parmenides His Theory of “Unity ” His Eschatology.
Chapter X.—Leucippus His Atomic Theory.
Chapter XI.—Democritus His Duality of Principles His Cosmogony.
Chapter XII.—Xenophanes His Scepticism His Notions of God and Nature Believes in a Flood.
Chapter XIII.—Ecphantus His Scepticism Tenet of Infinity.
Chapter XIV.—Hippo His Duality of Principles His Psychology.
Chapter XV.—Socrates His Philosophy Reproduced by Plato.
Chapter XVIII.—The Stoics Their Superiority in Logic Fatalists Their Doctrine of Conflagrations.
Chapter XX.—The Academics Difference of Opinion Among Them.
Chapter XXII.—The Druids Progenitors of Their System.
Chapter I.—System of the Astrologers Sidereal Influence Configuration of the Stars.
Chapter II.—Doctrines Concerning Æons The Chaldean Astrology Heresy Derivable from It.
Chapter VI.—Zodiacal Influence Origin of Sidereal Names.
Chapter VII.—Practical Absurdity of the Chaldaic Art Development of the Art.
Chapter IX.—Further Astronomic Calculations.
Chapter X.—Theory of Stellar Motion and Distance in Accordance with Harmony.
Chapter XI.—Theory of the Size of the Heavenly Bodies in Accordance with Numerical Harmonies.
Chapter XII.—Waste of Mental Energy in the Systems of the Astrologers.
Chapter XVI.—Type of Those Born Under Taurus.
Chapter XVII.—Type of Those Born Under Gemini.
Chapter XVIII.—Type of Those Born Under Cancer.
Chapter XIX.—Type of Those Born Under Leo.
Chapter XX.—Type of Those Born Under Virgo.
Chapter XXI.—Type of Those Born Under Libra.
Chapter XXII.—Type of Those Born Under Scorpio.
Chapter XXIII.—Type of Those Born Under Sagittarius.
Chapter XXIV.—Type of Those Born Under Capricorn.
Chapter XXV.—Type of Those Born Under Aquarius.
Chapter XXVI.—Type of Those Born Under Pisces.
Chapter XXVII.—Futility of This Theory of Stellar Influence.
Chapter XXIX.—Display of Different Eggs.
Chapter XXX.—Self-Slaughter of Sheep.
Chapter XXXI.—Method of Poisoning Goats.
Chapter XXXII.—Imitations of Thunder, and Other Illusions.
Chapter XXXIII.—The Burning Æsculapius Tricks with Fire.
Chapter XXXIV.—The Illusion of the Sealed Letters Object in Detailing These Juggleries.
Chapter XXXVI.—Mode of Managing an Apparition.
Chapter XXXVII.—Illusive Appearance of the Moon.
Chapter XXXVIII.—Illusive Appearance of the Stars.
Chapter XXXIX.—Imitation of an Earthquake.
Chapter XL.—Trick with the Liver.
Chapter XLI.—Making a Skull Speak.
Chapter XLII.—The Fraud of the Foregoing Practices Their Connection with Heresy.
Chapter XLIV.—Egyptian Theory of Nature Their Amulets.
Chapter XLV.—Use of the Foregoing Discussions.
Chapter XLVII.—Opinions of the Heretics Borrowed from Aratus.
Chapter XLIX.—Symbol of the Creature And of Spirit And of the Different Orders of Animals.
Chapter L.—Folly of Astrology.
Chapter V.—Explanation of the System of the Naasseni Taken from One of Their Hymns.
Chapter VI.—The Ophites the Grand Source of Heresy.
Chapter VII.—The System of the Peratæ Their Tritheism Explanation of the Incarnation.
Chapter IX.—System of the Peratæ Explained Out of One of Their Own Books.
Chapter XII.—Compendious Statement of the Doctrines of the Peratæ.
Chapter XIII.—The Peratic Heresy Not Generally Known.
Chapter XVII.—The Sethian Doctrines to Be Learned from the “Paraphrase of Seth.”
Chapter XVIII.—The System of Justinus Antiscriptural and Essentially Pagan.
Chapter XIX.—The Justinian Heresy Unfolded in the “Book of Baruch.”
Chapter XX.—The Cosmogony of Justinus an Allegorical Explanation of Herodotus’ Legend of Hercules.
Chapter XXII.—Oath Used by the Justinian Heretics The Book of Baruch The Repertory of Their System.
Chapter XXIII.—Subsequent Heresies Deducible from the System of Justinus.
Chapter III.—Story of Apsethus the Libyan.
Chapter V.—Simon Appeals to Scripture in Support of His System.
Chapter VI.—Simon’s System Expounded in the Work, Great Announcement Follows Empedocles.
Chapter VII.—Simon’s System of a Threefold Emanation by Pairs.
Chapter X.—Simon’s Explanation of the First Two Books of Moses.
Chapter XI.—Simon’s Explanation of the Three Last Books of the Pentateuch.
Chapter XII.—Fire a Primal Principle, According to Simon.
Chapter XIII.—His Doctrine of Emanation Further Expanded.
Chapter XVI.—Heresy of Valentinus Derived from Plato and Pythagoras.
Chapter XVII.—Origin of the Greek Philosophy.
Chapter XVIII.—Pythagoras’ System of Numbers.
Chapter XIX.—Pythagoras’ Duality of Substances His “Categories.”
Chapter XX.—Pythagoras’ Cosmogony Similar to that of Empedocles.
Chapter XXI.—Other Opinions of Pythagoras.
Chapter XXII.—The “Sayings” Of Pythagoras.
Chapter XXIII.—Pythagoras’ Astronomic System.
Chapter XXVI.—Valentinus’ Explanation of the Existence of Christ and the Spirit.
Chapter XXVII.—Valentinus’ Explanation of the Existence of Jesus Power of Jesus Over Humanity.
Chapter XXVIII.—The Valentinian Origin of the Creation.
Chapter XXIX.—The Other Valentinian Emanations in Conformity with the Pythagorean System of Numbers.
Chapter XXXI.—Further Doctrines of Valentinus Respecting the Æons Reasons for the Incarnation.
Chapter XXXII.—Valentinus Convicted of Plagiarisms from Plato.
Chapter XXXIII.—Secundus’ System of Æons Epiphanes Ptolemæus.
Chapter XXXIV.—System of Marcus A Mere Impostor His Wicked Devices Upon the Eucharistic Cup.
Chapter XXXV.—Further Acts of Jugglery on the Part of Marcus.
Chapter XXXVI.—The Heretical Practices of the Marcites in Regard of Baptism.
Chapter XXXVIII.—Marcus’ System of Letters.
Chapter XXXIX.—The Quaternion Exhibits “Truth.”
Chapter XL.—The Name of Christ Jesus.
Chapter XLI.—Marcus’ Mystic Interpretation of the Alphabet.
Chapter XLII.—His System Applied to Explain Our Lord’s Life and Death.
Chapter XLIII—Letters, Symbols of the Heavens.
Chapter XLIV.—Respecting the Generation of the Twenty-Four Letters.
Chapter XLV.—Why Jesus is Called Alpha.
Chapter XLVI.—Marcus’ Account of the Birth and Life of Our Lord.
Chapter XLVIII.—Their Cosmogony Framed According to These Mystic Doctrines of Letters.
Chapter XLIX.—The Work of the Demiurge Perishable.
Chapter L.—Marcus and Colarbasus Refuted by Irenæus.
Chapter II.—The System of Basilides Derived from Aristotle.
Chapter III.—Sketch of Aristotle’s Philosophy.
Chapter IV.—Aristotle’s General Idea.
Chapter V.—Nonentity as a Cause.
Chapter VI.—Substance, According to Aristotle The Predicates.
Chapter IX.—Basilides Adopts the Aristotelian Doctrine of “Nonentity.”
Chapter X.—Origin of the World Basilides’ Account of the “Sonship.”
Chapter XI.—The “Great Archon” Of Basilides.
Chapter XII.—Basilides Adopts the “Entelecheia” Of Aristotle.
Chapter XIII.—Further Explanation of the “Sonship.”
Chapter XVI.—The System of Saturnilus.
Chapter XVIII.—Source of Marcionism Empedocles Reasserted as the Suggester of the Heresy.
Chapter XIX.—The Heresy of Prepon Follows Empedocles Marcion Rejects the Generation of the Saviour.
Chapter XXI.—The System of Cerinthus Concerning Christ.
Chapter XXII.—Doctrine of the Ebionæans.
Chapter XXIII.—The Heresy of Theodotus.
Chapter XXIV.—The Melchisedecians The Nicolaitans.
Chapter XXV.—The Heresy of Cerdon.
Chapter XXVI.—The Doctrines of Apelles Philumene, His Prophetess.
Chapter I.—Heresies Hitherto Refuted Opinions of the Docetæ.
Chapter IV.—Docetic Doctrine Derived from the Greek Sophists.
Chapter V.—Monoïmus Man the Universe, According to Monoïmus His System of the Monad.
Chapter VI.—Monoïmus’ “Iota ” His Notion of the “Son of Man.”
Chapter VII.—Monoïmus on the Sabbath Allegorizes the Rod of Moses Notion Concerning the Decalogue.
Chapter XI.—The Quartodecimans.
Chapter XII.—The Montanists Priscilla and Maximilla Their Prophetesses Some of Them Noetians.
Chapter III.—Noetianism an Offshoot from the Heraclitic Philosophy.
Chapter IV.—An Account of the System of Heraclitus.
Chapter VIII.—Sect of the Elchasaites Hippolytus’ Opposition to It.
Chapter IX.—Elchasai Derived His System from Pythagoras Practised Incantations.
Chapter X.—Elchasai’s Mode of Administering Baptism Formularies.
Chapter XI.—Precepts of Elchasai.
Chapter XII.—The Heresy of the Elchasaites a Derivative One.
Chapter XIII.—The Jewish Sects.
Chapter XIV.—The Tenets of the Esseni.
Chapter XV.—The Tenets of the Esseni Continued.
Chapter XVI.—The Tenets of the Esseni Continued.
Chapter XVII.—The Tenets of the Esseni Continued.
Chapter XVIII.—The Tenets of the Esseni Continued.
Chapter XIX.—The Tenets of the Esseni Continued.
Chapter XX.—The Tenets of the Esseni Concluded.
Chapter XXI.—Different Sects of the Esseni.
Chapter XXII.—Belief of the Esseni in the Resurrection Their System a Suggestive One.
Chapter XXIII.—Another Sect of the Esseni: the Pharisees.
Chapter XXV.—The Jewish Religion.
Chapter XXVI.—Conclusion to the Work Explained.
Chapter II.—Summary of the Opinions of Philosophers.
Chapter III.—Summary of the Opinions of Philosophers Continued.
Chapter IV.—Summary of the Opinions of Philosophers Continued.
Chapter XV.—Marcion and Cerdo.
Chapter XXI.—The Phrygians or Montanists.
Chapter XXII.—The Phrygians or Montanists Continued.
Chapter XXIII.—Noetus and Callistus.
Chapter XXVI.—Jewish Chronology.
Chapter XXVII.—Jewish Chronology Continued.
Chapter XXVIII.—The Doctrine of the Truth.
Chapter VII.—The Sethians.
But to the Sethians it seems that there exist three principles, which have been precisely defined. And each of the principles is fitted by nature for being able to be generated, as in a human soul every art whatsoever is developed which is capable of being learned. The result is the same as when a child, by being long conversant with a musical instrument, becomes a musician; or with geometry a geometrician, or with any other art, with a similar result. And the essences of the principles, the Sethians say, are light and darkness. And in the midst of these is pure spirit; and the spirit, they say, is that which is placed intermediate between darkness, which is below, and light, which is above. It is not spirit, as a current of wind or a certain gentle breeze which may be felt, but just as if some fragrance of ointment or incense made out of a refined mixture,—a power diffusing itself by some impulse of fragrance which is inconceivable and superior to what one can express. Since, therefore, the light is above and the darkness below, and the spirit is intermediate between these, the light, also, as a ray of sun, shines from above on the underlying darkness. And the fragrance of the spirit is wafted onwards, occupying an intermediate position, and proceeds forth, just as is diffused the odour of incense-offerings (laid) upon the fire. Now the power of the things divided threefold being of this description, the power simultaneously of the spirit and of the light is below, in the darkness that is situated beneath. The darkness, however, they say, is a horrible water, into which the light along with the spirit is absorbed, and thus translated into a nature of this description. The darkness being then endued with intelligence, and knowing that when the light has been removed from it the darkness continues desolate, devoid of radiance and splendour, power and efficiency, as well as impotent, (therefore,) by every effort of reflection and of reason, this makes an exertion to comprise in itself brilliancy, and a scintillation of light, along with the fragrance of the spirit. And of this they introduce the following image, expressing themselves thus: Just as the pupil of the eye appears dark beneath the underlying humours, but is illuminated by the spirit, so the darkness earnestly strives after the spirit, and has with itself all the powers which wish to retire and return. Now these are indefinitely infinite, from which, when commingled, all things are figured and generated like seals. For just as a seal, when brought into contact with wax, produces a figure, (and yet the seal) itself remains of itself what it was, so also the powers, by coming into communion (one with the other), form all the infinite kinds of animals. The Sethians assert that, therefore, from the primary concourse of the three principles was generated an image of the great seal, namely heaven and earth, having a form like a womb, possessing a navel in the midst. And so that the rest of the figures of all things were, like heaven and earth, fashioned similar to a womb.
And the Sethians say that from the water was produced a first-begotten principle, namely a vehement and boisterous wind, and that it is a cause of all generation, which creates a sort of heat and motion in the world from the motion of the waters. And they maintain that this wind is fashioned like the hissing of a serpent into a perfect image. And on this the world gazes and hurries into generation, being inflamed as a womb; and from thence they are disposed to think that the generation of the universe has arisen. And they say that this wind constitutes a spirit, and that a perfect God has arisen from the fragrance of the waters, and that of the spirit, and from the brilliant light. And they affirm that mind exists after the mode of generation from a female—(meaning by mind) the supernal spark—and that, having been mingled beneath with the compounds of body, it earnestly desires to flee away, that escaping it may depart and not find dissolution on account of the deficiency in the waters. Wherefore it is in the habit of crying aloud from the mixture of the waters, according to the Psalmist, as they say, “For the entire anxiety of the light above is, that it may deliver the spark which is below from the Father beneath,”1028 The commentators refer us to Ps. xxix. 3.that is, from wind. And the Father creates heat and disturbance, and produces for Himself a Son, namely mind, which, as they allege, is not the peculiar offspring of Himself. And these heretics affirm that the Son, on beholding the perfect Logos of the supernal light, underwent a transformation, and in the shape of a serpent entered into a womb, in order that he might be able to recover that Mind which is the scintillation from the light. And that this is what has been declared, “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant.”1029 Phil. ii. 6, 7. And the wretched and baneful Sethians are disposed to think that this constitutes the servile form alluded to by the Apostle. These, then, are the assertions which likewise these Sethians advance.
[11] [Τ]οῖς δὲ Σηθιανοῖς δοκεῖ ὅτι τῶν ὅλω(ν) εἰσὶ τρεῖς ἀρχαὶ περιωρισμέναι, ἑκάστη δὲ τῶν ἀρχῶν [ἀπείρους ἔχει δυνάμεις. δυνάμεις δὲ αὐτῶν λογιζέσθω ὁ ἀκούων τοῦτο αὐτοὺς λέγειν: πᾶν ὅ τι νοήσει ἐπινοεῖς ἢ καὶ παραλείπεις μὴ νοηθέν, τοῦτο ἑκάστη τῶν ἀρχῶν] πέφυκε [δύνασθα(ι)] (γ)ενέσθαι, ὡς ἐν ἀνθρωπίνῃ ψυχῇ πᾶσα ἡτισοῦν διδ(α)σκομένη τέχνη: οἷον εἰ, [φασίν, ἐγγὺς] γένοιτο [τὸ] παιδίον αὐλητῇ [δύνασθαι] [γενέσθαι] αὐλεῖν, ἢ γεωμέτρῃ γεωμετρεῖ(ν), καὶ [ἄλλῃ] τινὶ τέχνῃ ὁμοίως. αἱ δὲ τῶν ἀρχῶν, φασίν, οὐσίαι εἰσὶ φῶς καὶ σκότ(ος): τούτων δέ ἐστιν ἐν μέσῳ πνεῦμα ἀκέραιον. τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα, τὸ τεταγμένον ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ σκότους, ὅπερ ἐστὶ κάτω, καὶ τοῦ φωτός, ὅπερ ἐστὶν ἄνω, [ὡς] λέγουσιν, οὐκ ἔστι πνεῦμα ὡς ἄνεμος ἢ ῥιπὴ ἢ λεπτή τις αὔρα νοηθῆναι δυναμένη, ἀλλ' οἱονεί τις ὀσμὴ μύρου ἢ θυμιάματος ἐκ συνθέσεως κατασκευαζομένου, λεπτὴ διοδεύουσα δύναμις ἀνεπινοήτῳ τινὶ καὶ κρείττονι λόγου φορᾷ εὐωδίας. ἐπεὶ τοίνυν ἐστὶν ἄνω τὸ φῶς καὶ κάτω τὸ σκότος καὶ τούτων μέσον τὸ πνεῦμα, τὸ δὴ φῶς [ὡς] ἀκτὶς ἡλίου ἄνωθεν [πέφυκεν] ἐλλάμπειν εἰς τὸ ὑποκείμενον σκότος: ἡ δὲ τοῦ πνεύματος εὐωδία, μέσην ἔχουσα τάξιν, φέρεται καὶ ἐξικνεῖται [πανταχῇ], ὥσπερ ἡ τῶν θυμιαμάτων ἐπὶ τῷ πυρὶ ὀσμὴ [πανταχῇ] φέρεται. τοιαύτης δὲ οὔσης τῆς δυνάμεως τῶν διῃρημένων τριχῶς, τοῦ πνεύματος καὶ τοῦ φωτὸς ὁμοῦ ἡ δύναμίς ἐστι κάτω ἐν τῷ σκότει τῷ ὑποτεταγμένῳ. Τὸ δὲ σκότος ὕδωρ εἶναί φασι φοβερόν, εἰς ὃ κατέσπασται [καὶ] μετενήνεκται εἰς [τὴν] τοιαύτην φύσιν μετὰ τοῦ πνεύματος τὸ φῶς. φρόνιμον οὖν τὸ σκότος ὂν καὶ γινῶσκον ὅτι, ἂν ἀπαρθῇ ἀπ' αὐτοῦ τὸ φῶς, μενεῖ τὸ σκότος ἔρημον, ἀφανές, ἀλαμπές, ἀδύναμον, ἄπρακτον, ἀσθενές. [οὕ]τω δὴ πάσῃ συνέσει καὶ φρονήσει βιάζεται κατέχειν εἰς ἑαυτὸ τὴν λαμπηδόνα καὶ τὸν σπινθῆρα τοῦ φωτὸς μετὰ τῆς τοῦ πνεύματος εὐωδίας. Εἰκόνα [δὲ] τούτου ταύτην παρεισάγουσι, λέγοντες: ὥσπερ ἡ κόρη τοῦ ὀφθαλμοῦ [ἐκ τῶν μὲν] ὑποκειμένων ὑδάτων σκοτεινὴ φαίνεται, φωτίζεται δὲ ὑπὸ τοῦ πνεύματος, οὕτως ἀντιποιεῖται τὸ σκότος τοῦ πνεύματος [καὶ τοῦ φωτός]. ἔχει δὲ παρ' (ἑ)αυτῷ πάσας τὰς δυνάμεις [αὐτῶν], βουλομένας ἀφίστασθαι κα(ὶ) ἀνιέναι. εἰσὶ δὲ αὗται ἀπειράκις ἄπειροι: ἐξ ὧν τὰ π(άν)τα ἐκτυπο(ῦτ)αι καὶ γίνεται, ἐπιμιγνυμένων [τῶν δυνάμεων ἀλλήλαις] δίκην σφραγίδων: ὥσπερ γὰρ σφραγὶς ἐπικοινωνήσασα κηρῷ τὸν τύπον ἐποίησεν, αὐτὴ παρ' ἑαυτῇ ἥτις ἦν μένουσα, οὕτως καὶ αἱ δυνάμεις ἐπικοινωνήσασαι [ἀλλήλαις] τὰ πάντα ἀπεργάζονται γένη ζῴων, [ὄντα] ἄπειρα. γεγονέν[αι] οὖν [φασιν] ἀπὸ τῆς πρώτης συνδρομῆς τῶν τριῶν ἀρχῶν μεγάλης σφραγῖδος ἰδέαν, οὐρανὸν καὶ γῆν, εἶδος ἔχουσαν παραπλήσιον μήτρᾳ, [τὸν] ὀμφαλὸν ἐχούσῃ μέσον. οὕτως δὲ καὶ τὰς λοιπὰς ἐκτυπώσεις τῶν πάντων [ζῴων] ἐκτετυπῶσθαι, ὥσπερ οὐρανὸν καὶ γῆν μήτρᾳ παραπλησίους. Ἐκ δὲ τοῦ ὕδατος γεγονέναι φασὶ πρωτόγονον ἀρχήν, ἄνεμο[ν] [σ]φοδρὸν καὶ λάβρον καὶ πάσης γενέσεως αἴτιον, βρασμόν τινα καὶ κίνησιν ἐργαζόμενον τῷ κόσμῳ ἐκ τῆς τῶν ὑδάτων κινήσεως. τοῦτον δὲ ἀποτελεῖν εἶδος σύρματι ὄφεως παραπλήσιον, πτερωθέν, εἰς ὃ [ἀ]φορῶν ὁ κόσμος πρὸς γένεσιν ὁρμᾷ ὀργήσας ὡς μήτρα, καὶ ἐντεῦθεν θέλουσι συνίστασθαι τὴν τῶν ὅλων γένεσιν. τοῦτο δὲ [τὸ] σύρμα ἀνέμου εἶναι λέγουσι τέλειον θεόν, [ὃν] ἐκ τῆς τῶν ὑδάτων [κινήσεως] καὶ τῆς τοῦ πνεύματος εὐωδίας καὶ [τῆς τοῦ] φωτὸς λαμπηδόνος γεγονέναι καὶ εἶναι γέν[ν]ημα θηλείας, νοῦν. τὸν [οὖν] ἄνωθεν σπινθῆρα, κάτω ἀναμεμιγμένον ἐν τοῖς πολυσυγκρίτοις [τοῦ] σώματος, σπεύδειν ἐκφεύγειν, ἐκφυγόντα [δὲ ἄνω] πορεύεσθαι, καὶ τὴν λύσιν οὐχ εὑρίσκειν διὰ τὴν ἐν τοῖς ὕδασι δέσιν. διὸ ἐβόα ἐκ τῆς τῶν ὑδάτων μίξεως, κατὰ τὸν ψαλμῳδόν, ὡς λέγουσι. Πᾶσα οὖν ἡ φροντὶς τοῦ ἄνω φωτός ἐστιν, ὅπως ῥύσηται τὸν κάτω σπινθῆρα ἀπὸ τοῦ κάτω πατρός, [τοῦ] ἀνέμου, ἐπεγείραντος βρασμὸν καὶ τάραχον καὶ ἑαυτῷ νοῦν [τέλειον υἱὸν] ποιήσαντος, οὐκ ὄντα αὐτοῦ, [ὡς] φάσκουσιν, ἴδ[ι]ον [κα]τὰ [οὐσίαν]. τὸν [οὖν] ἄνωθεν τέλειον λόγον τοῦ φωτὸς αὑτὸν ἀπομορφώσαντα εἴδει ὄφεως κεχωρηκέναι ἐν μήτρᾳ, ἵνα τὸν νοῦν ἐκεῖνον, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ φωτὸς σπινθῆρα ἀνα(λ)αβεῖν δυνηθῇ. καὶ τοῦτο εἶναί [φασι] τὸ εἰρημένον: «ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπ(α)γμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ, ἀλλ' ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσε μορφ(ὴν) δούλου λαβών». καὶ ταύτην εἶναι τὴν [δουλικὴν] μορφὴν οἱ κακοδαίμονες θέλουσι καὶ πολυπή(μ)ονες Σηθιανοί. ταῦτα μὲν οὖν καὶ οὗτοι λέγουσιν.