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discerning what has been said. And these things are easy to learn from night-hunters and pilots and many others, whose business it is 14.11.4 to know these things. But to learn astronomy up to this point, so far as to know the things not in the same revolution, and the planets and the irregular stars, and to be worn out seeking their distances from the earth and their periods and their causes, he strongly discouraged. For he said he saw no benefit even in these things; and yet he was not ignorant of these things. He said that these things were also sufficient to wear out a man's life and to hinder him from many useful 14.11.5 things. And in general he discouraged becoming a ponderer on heavenly things, in what way God contrives each of them; for he thought them neither discoverable by men, nor did he think that one who seeks what the gods did not wish to make clear would be pleasing to them. And he said that one who worried about these things would be in danger of going mad, no less than Anaxagoras went mad, who took the greatest pride in explaining the contrivances of the 14.11.6 gods. For he, saying that fire and the sun are the same thing, was ignorant that men look at fire easily, but they cannot look at the sun; and being illuminated by the sun they have darker complexions, but not by fire. And he was also ignorant that of the things that grow from the earth, nothing can grow well without the light of the sun, but being warmed by fire all are destroyed; and asserting that the sun is a red-hot stone, he was ignorant of this too, that a stone in a fire neither shines nor lasts for a long time, but the sun, being the brightest of all things for all time, remains. 14.11.7 And he urged them to learn calculations, but of these too, similarly to the others, he urged them to beware of vain occupation; but up to the point of usefulness he himself both examined everything and went through it with his companions.” These things Xenophon says in his Memorabilia. And in a letter, the same author, in one to Aeschines concerning Plato and those who boast of the natural philosophy of the universe, writes such things as these:

14.12.1 XII. CONCERNING THOSE WHO BOAST OF STUDYING NATURAL PHILOSOPHY “For that divine things are beyond us is clear to everyone; and it is sufficient to worship them according to the best of one’s ability; but what they are like is neither easy to discover nor right to seek. For it is not fitting for slaves to know the nature or business of their masters beyond their service. And most importantly, just as one must admire those who labor at human affairs, so it brings vexation to those who are greedy for reputation from many untimely and empty things. For when, O Aeschines, has anyone heard Socrates speaking about heavenly things, or advising to learn geometry for improvement? For we know that he understood music only as far as his ears; but he continually told them on every occasion what is noble and what is courage, and justice and the other virtues. At any rate, he called these things human goods, but the others he said were either impossible for men to grasp or akin to myths, the games of sophists who go through them with a frown. And he not only said these things, but did them. But to write of the things that were done to you who know them, although it would not be unpleasant, takes time, and I have written them elsewhere. Let them therefore cease from being refuted, or let them turn to what is reasonable, those whom Socrates did not please, to whom while he was alive the god bore witness to his wisdom, but those who killed him found no purification from their repentance. But the fine thing, it seems, is that they fell in love with Egypt and the monstrous wisdom of Pythagoras, whose superfluous and impermanent nature in Socrates' case was refuted by a lust for tyranny and, instead of a simple diet, the Sicilian table of an immoderate belly.” These things Xenophon says, hinting at Plato. But Plato, in the Republic, relates that Socrates said these things about gymnastics and music:

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εἰρημένων διαγινώσκοντα. καὶ ταῦτα δὲ ῥᾴδια μαθεῖν παρά τε νυκτοθηρῶν καὶ κυβερνητῶν καὶ ἄλλων πολλῶν, οἷς ἐπιμελὲς 14.11.4 ταῦτα εἰδέναι. τὸ δὲ μέχρι τούτου ἀστρονομίαν μανθάνειν, μέχρι τοῦ καὶ τὰ μὴ ἐν τῇ αὐτῇ περιφορᾷ ὄντα καὶ τοὺς πλανήτας καὶ ἀσταθμήτους ἀστέρας γνῶναι καὶ τὰς ἀποστάσεις αὐτῶν ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ τὰς περιόδους καὶ τὰς αἰτίας αὐτῶν ζητοῦντα κατατρίβεσθαι, ἰσχυρῶς ἀπέτρεπεν. ὠφέλειαν μὲν γὰρ οὐδεμίαν οὐδ' ἐν τούτοις ἔφη ὁρᾶν· καίτοι οὐδὲ τούτων γε ἀνήκοος ἦν. ἔφη δὲ καὶ ταῦτα ἱκανὰ εἶναι κατατρίβειν ἀνθρώπου βίον καὶ πολλῶν καὶ ὠφελί14.11.5 μων ἀποκωλύειν. ὅλως δὲ τῶν οὐρανίων ᾗ ἕκαστα ὁ θεὸς μηχανᾶται φροντιστὴν γίγνεσθαι ἀπέτρεπεν· οὔτε γὰρ εὑρετὰ ἀνθρώποις αὐτὰ ἐνόμιζεν εἶναι οὔτε χαρίζεσθαι θεοῖς ἂν ἡγεῖτο τὸν ζητοῦντα, ἃ ἐκεῖνοι σαφηνίσαι οὐκ ἐβουλήθησαν. κινδυνεῦσαι δ' ἂν ἔφη καὶ παραφρονῆσαι τὸν ταῦτα μεριμνῶντα οὐδὲν ἧττον ἢ Ἀναξαγόρας παρεφρόνησεν, ὁ μέγιστον φρονήσας ἐπὶ τῷ τὰς τῶν 14.11.6 θεῶν μηχανὰς ἐξηγεῖσθαι. ἐκεῖνος γὰρ λέγων μὲν τὸ αὐτὸ εἶναι πῦρ τε καὶ ἥλιον ἠγνόει ὅτι τὸ μὲν πῦρ οἱ ἄνθρωποι ῥᾳδίως καθορῶσιν, εἰς δὲ τὸν ἥλιον οὐ δύνανται ἀντιβλέπειν· καὶ ὑπὸ μὲν τοῦ ἡλίου καταλαμπόμενοι τὰ χρώματα μελάντερα ἔχουσιν, ὑπὸ δὲ τοῦ πυρὸς οὔ. ἠγνόει δὲ καὶ ὅτι τῶν ἐκ τῆς γῆς φυομένων ἄνευ μὲν ἡλίου αὐγῆς οὐδὲν δύναται καλῶς αὔξεσθαι, ὑπὸ δὲ τοῦ πυρὸς θερμαινόμενα πάντα ἀπόλλυται· φάσκων δὲ τὸν ἥλιον λίθον διάπυρον εἶναι καὶ τοῦτο ἠγνόει, ὅτι λίθος μὲν ἐν πυρὶ ὢν οὔτε λάμπει οὔτε πολὺν χρόνον ἀντέχει, ὁ δὲ ἥλιος πάντα τὸν χρόνον πάντων λαμπρότατος ὢν διαμένει. 14.11.7 ἐκέλευε δὲ καὶ λογισμοὺς μανθάνειν, καὶ τούτων δὲ ὁμοίως τοῖς ἄλλοις ἐκέλευε φυλάττεσθαι τὴν μάταιον πραγματείαν· μέχρι δὲ τοῦ ὠφελίμου πάντα καὶ αὐτὸς συνεσκόπει καὶ συνδιεξῄει τοῖς συνοῦσι.» Ταῦτα Ξενοφῶν ἐν Ἀπομνημονεύμασιν. ἐν ἐπιστολῇ δὲ ὁ αὐτὸς τῇ πρὸς Αἰσχίνην περὶ Πλάτωνος καὶ τῶν αὐχούντων τὴν τοῦ παντὸς φυσιολογίαν τοιαῦτα γράφει·

14.12.1 ιβʹ. ΠΕΡΙ ΤΩΝ ΦΥΣΙΟΛΟΓΕΙΝ ΑΥΧΟΥΝΤΩΝ «Ὅτι μὲν γὰρ τὰ θεῖα ὑπὲρ ἡμᾶς παντὶ δῆλον· ἀπόχρη δὲ τῷ κρείττονι τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοὺς σέβειν· οἷοι δέ εἰσιν οὔτε εὑρεῖν ῥᾴδιον οὔτε ζητεῖν θεμιτόν. οὐδὲ γὰρ δεσποτῶν φύσιν ἢ πρᾶξιν δούλοις εἰδέναι πλέον ὑπηρεσίας προσήκει. καὶ τὸ μέγιστον, ὅσῳ χρὴ ἄγασθαι τἀνθρώπινα διαπονουμένων, τοσῷδε τοῖς δόξης ἐκ πολλῶν ἀκαίρων καὶ κενῶν γλιχομένοις ἄχθος φέρει. πότε γάρ, ὦ Αἰσχίνη, Σωκράτους ἀκήκοέ τις οὐρανίων πέρι λέγοντος ἢ γραμμὰς εἰς ἐπανόρθωσιν παραινοῦντος μανθάνειν; μουσικὴν μὲν γὰρ ἴσμεν αὐτὸν μέχρις ὤτων συνιέντα· διετέλει δὲ ἑκάστοτε αὐτοῖς λέγων τί καλὸν καὶ τί ἀνδρεία δικαιοσύνη τε καὶ ἄλλαι ἀρεταί. ἀνθρώπινα γοῦν αὐτὰ ἀγαθὰ ἐκάλει, τὰ δ' ἄλλα ἢ ἀδύνατον ἀνθρώποις ἁλῶναι ἔφασκεν ἢ μύθων εἶναι συγγενῆ, μετ' ὀφρύος σοφιστῶν παίγνια διεξιόντων. καὶ οὐκ ἔλεγε μὲν ταῦτα, οὐχὶ δὲ ἔπραττε. γράφειν δὲ τὰ πραχθέντα εἰδότι σοι, καίπερ οὐκ ἀηδὲς ἐσόμενον, χρόνον ἔχει ἀνέγραψά τε ἄλλοθι. παυσάσθωσαν οὖν ἐλεγχόμενοι ἢ πρὸς τὸ εἰκὸς ἴτωσαν, οἷς Σωκράτης οὐκ ἤρεσεν, ᾧ ζῶντι μὲν ὁ θεὸς σοφίαν ἐμαρτύρησεν, οἱ δὲ κτείναντες τῆς μετανοίας ἀποκάθαρσιν οὐχ εὗρον. τὸ δὲ καλὸν ἄρα, Αἰγύπτου ἠράσθησαν καὶ τῆς Πυθαγόρα τερατώδους σοφίας, ὧν τὸ περιττὸν καὶ μὴ μόνιμον ἐπὶ Σωκράτει ἤλεγξεν ἔρως τυραννίδος καὶ ἀντὶ διαίτης λιτῆς Σικελιῶτις γαστρὸς ἀμέτρου τράπεζα.» Ταῦτα Ξενοφῶν τὸν Πλάτωνα αἰνιττόμενος. ὁ δέ γε Πλάτων ἐν Πολιτείᾳ περὶ γυμναστικῆς καὶ μουσικῆς τάδ' ἱστορεῖ φάναι τὸν Σωκράτην·