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Dialogi duo contra Macedonianos

OF OUR FATHER AMONG THE SAINTS ATHANASIUS, a discourse in the form of a dialogue with a Macedonian Pneumatomachian.

We have sent to your understanding the present treatise, so that you, having read it, may examine both the things said by the heretics, those who hold the opinions of Macedonius, and the things set against them by us. The things, then, set forth by them in the draft are these: If the Holy Spirit is God, he is Father or Son; but if not, he is not God. And we to him: You accepted for yourself this: If the Spirit is God, he is Father or Son, as if the Father is God for this reason, because he is Father, and as if the Son is God for this reason, because he is the Son. If then the Father is God for this reason, because he is Father, the Son is not God, because he is not Father. And if the Son is God for this reason, because he is Son, the Father is not God, because he is not Son; therefore it is not the case that if the Spirit is God, he is necessarily Father or Son. For the name "God" is indicative of a nature contemplated, or rather a nature that deifies all things; but "Father" is relational, and "Son" likewise. And neither does the name of relation signify a deifying or contemplated nature; nor does the name of a contemplated or deifying nature introduce the relation to a Son. In addition to these things, assuming the persona of an Orthodox person, he asked himself: Is he not to be worshipped then? and then again, he himself to himself: The Holy Spirit is deprived of such dignity. For how is one to be worshipped who is neither Father nor Son? But we to him: If you worship the Father for this reason, because he is Father, and the Son, because he is Son; you worship every father, and every son; but if the Father is not to be worshipped for this reason, because he is Father, nor is the Son to be worshipped for this reason, because he is Son, but because of his very nature; this must be investigated. And if the Spirit should be found to be of his nature, worship him; but if he should not be found so, separate him. For the question is not whether the Spirit is Father, nor whether he is Son; but whether he is of the same nature as the Father and the Son. To this he again objects to himself, as if said by an Orthodox person: Is it not written, that "God is Spirit?" Then he himself says: God is a spirit, and not the Spirit is God. For whatever is God, this is also spirit; not whatever is spirit, this is also God. But we to him: If you knew the gift of God, and held the memory of the Scriptures, you would not have declared this. For not everything that is God is also the Spirit. For Moses also was called god: "For behold, I make you a god to Pharaoh." but also Aaron, of the same brother; "For you shall be to him," it says, "as a god, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet." And the Son in the Gospels says concerning the saints: "If then he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the 28.1293 Scripture cannot be broken;" and, "The Lord, the God of gods, has spoken, and called the earth;" and in other places: "The God of gods shall be seen in Zion;" and, "God stood in the assembly of gods, and in the midst he will judge gods;" and, "You shall not speak evil of the gods," is written. According to your wisdom, then, if everything that is God is also spirit, all the aforementioned men and gods are spirits. But if Moses is a god, and each of the aforementioned, and they are not spirits, then not everything that is God is also spirit; nor is everything that is spirit also God. For the demons of you heretics are spirits, and they are not gods. Again introducing the persona of an Orthodox person, Let us grant, he says, that the Spirit is not called God, yet he is called Lord; for it is written: "Now the Lord is the Spirit." Again he says: Say yourself what follows: "Now where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." Concerning the Lord, he says, it says that the Lord is the Spirit. But we to him: Truly the,

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Dialogi duo contra Macedonianos

ΤΟΥ ΕΝ ΑΓΙΟΙΣ ΠΑΤΡΟΣ ΗΜΩΝ ΑΘΑΝΑΣΙΟΥ Λόγος ἐν εἴδει διαλέξεως μετὰ Μακεδονιανοῦ Πνευματομάχου.

Ἀπεστείλαμεν τῇ σῇ συνέσει τὸ παρὸν σύνταγμα ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀναγνόντα σε δοκιμάσαι καὶ τὰ παρὰ τῶν αἱρετικῶν, τῶν τὰ Μακεδονίου φρονούντων εἰρημένα, καὶ τὰ παρ' ἡμῶν ἀντιτεθέντα. Τὰ μὲν οὖν ὑπ' ἐκείνων τεθέντα, ἐν τῷ σχεδαρίῳ ταῦτά εἰσιν· Εἰ ἔστι Θεὸς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον, ἔστι Πατὴρ ἢ Υἱός· εἰ δὲ μὴ, οὐ Θεός. Καὶ ἡμεῖς πρὸς αὐτόν· Ἐδέξω σαυτῷ τό· Εἰ ἔστι Θεὸς τὸ Πνεῦμα, ἔστι Πατὴρ ἢ Υἱὸς, ὡς τοῦ Πατρὸς διὰ τοῦτο ὄντος Θεοῦ, ἐπειδὴ Πατήρ ἐστι, καὶ ὡς τοῦ Υἱοῦ διὰ τοῦτο ὄντος Θεοῦ, ἐπειδὴ ὁ Υἱός ἐστιν. Εἰ οὖν διὰ τοῦτο Θεός ἐστιν ὁ Πατὴρ, ἐπειδὴ Πατὴρ, οὐ Θεὸς ὁ Υἱὸς, ἐπειδὴ οὐ Πατήρ. Καὶ εἰ διὰ τοῦτό ἐστι Θεὸς ὁ Υἱὸς, ἐπειδὴ Υἱὸς, οὐ Θεὸς ὁ Πατὴρ, ἐπειδὴ οὐχ Υἱός· οὐκ ἄρα, ἐὰν ᾖ Θεὸς τὸ Πνεῦμα, πάντως ἐστὶ Πατὴρ, ἢ Υἱός. Τὸ γὰρ «Θεὸς» ὄνομα, φύσεώς ἐστι θεωρουμένης, εἴτουν διαθεούσης τὰ πάντα δηλωτικόν· τὸ δὲ «Πατὴρ» σχετι κὸν, καὶ τὸ «Υἱὸς» ὁμοίως. Οὔτε δὲ τὸ τῆς σχέσεως ὄνομα τὴν διαθέουσαν, ἢ τὴν θεωρουμένην τι φύσιν σημαίνει· οὔτε τὸ τῆς τι θεωρουμένης ἢ διαθεούσης φύσεως ὄνομα, τὴν πρὸς Υἱὸν σχέσιν εἰσάγει. Πρὸς τούτοις, προσποιησάμενος Ὀρθοδόξου πρόσωπον, ἑαυτὸν ἠρώτα· Οὐ προσκυνητὸν οὖν; καὶ ἔπειτα πάλιν αὐτὸς ἑαυτῷ· Ἀπολείπεται τῆς τοιαύτης ἀξίας τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον. Πῶς γὰρ προσκυνητέον τὸ μήτε Πατὴρ, μήτε Υἱός; Ἡμεῖς δὲ πρὸς αὐτόν· Εἰ μὲν διὰ τοῦτο προσ κυνεῖς τὸν Πατέρα, ἐπειδὴ Πατήρ ἐστι, καὶ τὸν Υἱὸν, ἐπειδὴ Υἱός ἐστι· προσκυνεῖς καὶ πάντα πα τέρα, καὶ πάντα υἱόν· εἰ δὲ οὐ διὰ τοῦτο προσκυνη τὸς ὁ Πατὴρ, ἐπειδὴ Πατὴρ, οὐδὲ διὰ τοῦτο προσκυνητὸς ὁ Υἱὸς, ἐπειδὴ Υἱὸς, ἀλλὰ δι' αὐτὴν τὴν φύσιν· ταύτην ζητητέον. Καὶ εἰ μὲν εὑρεθείη καὶ τὸ Πνεῦμα τῆς αὐτοῦ φύσεως, προσκύνει· εἰ δὲ μὴ εὑρεθείη, χωρίς. Ζητεῖται γὰρ οὐχὶ, εἰ Πατήρ ἐστι τὸ Πνεῦμα, οὐδ' εἰ Υἱός· ἀλλ' εἰ τῆς αὐτῆς φύσεώς ἐστι Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ. Πρὸς τοῦτο πάλιν ἑαυτῷ ἀντιτίθησιν, ὡς παρὰ Ὀρθοδόξου εἰρημένον· Οὐ γέγραπται, ὅτι «Πνεῦμα ὁ Θεός;» Εἶτά φησιν αὐτός· Πνεῦμά ἐστιν ὁ Θεὸς, καὶ οὐχὶ τὸ Πνεῦμα Θεός. Πᾶν γὰρ εἴ τι Θεὸς, τοῦτο καὶ Πνεῦμα· οὐκ εἴ τι Πνεῦμα, τοῦτο δὴ καὶ Θεός. Ἡμεῖς δὲ πρὸς αὐτόν· Εἰ ᾔδεις τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ τὴν τῶν Γραφῶν κατεῖχες μνήμην, οὐκ ἂν ἀπεφήνω τοῦτο. Οὐ πᾶν γὰρ εἴ τι Θεὸς, τοῦτο καὶ τὸ Πνεῦμα. Καὶ γὰρ ὁ Μωσῆς θεὸς ἐκλήθη· «Ἰδοὺ γὰρ τίθημί σε θεὸν τοῦ Φαραώ·» ἀλλὰ καὶ Ἀαρὼν τοῦ αὐτοῦ ἀδελφοῦ· «Ἔσῃ γὰρ αὐτῷ, φησὶν, εἰς θεὸν, καὶ Ἀαρὼν ὁ ἀδελφός σου ἔσται σοι εἰς προφήτην.» Καὶ ὁ Υἱὸς ἐν τοῖς Εὐαγγε λίοις λέγει περὶ τῶν ἁγίων· «Εἰ οὖν ἐκείνους εἶπε θεοὺς, πρὸς οὓς ὁ λόγος τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ οὐ 28.1293 δύναται ἡ Γραφὴ λυθῆναι·» καὶ, «Θεὸς θεῶν Κύ ριος ἐλάλησε, καὶ ἐκάλεσε τὴν γῆν·» καὶ ἐν ἑτέροις· «Ὀφθήσεται ὁ Θεὸς τῶν θεῶν ἐν Σιών·» καὶ, «Ὁ Θεὸς ἔστη ἐν συναγωγῇ θεῶν, καὶ ἐν μέσῳ δὲ θεοὺς διακρινεῖ·» καὶ, «Θεοὺς οὐ κακολογήσεις,» γέγραπται. Κατὰ γοῦν τὴν σὴν σοφίαν, εἰ πᾶν εἴ τι Θεὸς, τοῦτο καὶ Πνεῦμα, πάντες οἱ προειρημένοι ἄν θρωποι καὶ θεοὶ, Πνεύματά εἰσιν. Εἰ δὲ θεὸς Μωσῆς, καὶ ἕκαστος τῶν προειρημένων, καὶ οὐ Πνεύματα, οὐκ ἄρα πᾶν εἴ τι Θεὸς, τοῦτο καὶ Πνεῦμα· οὐδὲ πᾶν εἴ τι Πνεῦμα, τοῦτο καὶ Θεός. Καὶ γὰρ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑμῶν τῶν αἱρετικῶν πνεύματά εἰσι, καὶ οὐκ εἰσὶ θεοί. Ἔτι πρόσωπον εἰσαγαγὼν Ὀρθοδόξου, ∆ῶμεν, φησὶν, ὡς οὐ θεολογεῖται τὸ Πνεῦμα, ὅμως κυριολο γεῖται· γέγραπται γάρ· «Ὁ δὲ Κύριος τὸ Πνεῦμά ἐστιν.» Ἔτι φησίν· Εἰπὲ αὐτὸς τὸ ἐπαγόμενον· «Οὗ δὲ τὸ Πνεῦμα Κυρίου, ἐκεῖ ἐλευθερία.» Περὶ τοῦ Κυρίου λέγει, φησὶν, ὅτι ὁ Κύριος τὸ Πνεῦμά ἐστιν. Ἡμεῖς δὲ πρὸς αὐτόν· Ἀληθῶς τὸ,