Hippolytus of Rome, The Refutation of All Heresies

For this reason it is impossible to fix the horoscope from the (period of) conception. But neither can this be done from (that of) birth. For, in the first place, there exists the difficulty as to when it can be declared that there is a birth; whether it is when the fœtus begins to incline towards the orifice,146 Or, “the cold atmosphere.” John i. 3. or when it may project a little, or when it may be borne to the ground. Neither is it in each of these cases possible to comprehend the precise moment of parturition,147 Or, “manifestation.” John iv. 21. or to define the time. For also on account of disposition of soul, and on account of suitableness of body, and on account of choice of the parts, and on account of experience in the midwife, and other endless causes, the time is not the same at which the fœtus inclines towards the orifice, when the membranes are ruptured, or when it projects a little, or is deposited on the ground; but the period is different in the case of different individuals. And when the Chaldeans are not able definitely and accurately to calculate this, they will fail, as they ought, to determine the period of emergence.

That, then, the Chaldeans profess to be acquainted with the horoscope at the periods of birth,148 Or, “manifestation.” ἐξ ἧς or ἑξῆς, i.e., next. but in reality do not know it, is evident from these considerations. But that neither is their horoscope infallible, it is easy to conclude. For when they allege that the person sitting beside the woman in travail at the time of parturition gives, by striking a metallic rim, a sign to the Chaldean, who from an elevated place is contemplating the stars, and he, looking towards heaven, marks down the rising zodiacal sign; in the first place, we shall prove to them, that when parturition happens indefinitely, as we have shown a little before, neither is it easy149 Or, “reasonable.” Matt. xiii. 31, 32; Mark iv. 31, 32; Luke xiii. 19. to signify this (birth) by striking the metallic rim. However, grant that the birth is comprehensible, yet neither is it possible to signify this at the exact time; for as the noise of the metallic plate is capable of being divided by a longer time and one protracted, in reference to perception, it happens that the sound is carried to the height (with proportionate delay). And the following proof may be observed in the case of those felling timber at a distance. For a sufficiently long time after the descent of the axe, the sound of the stroke is heard, so that it takes a longer time to reach the listener. And for this reason, therefore, it is not possible for the Chaldeans accurately to take the time of the rising zodiacal sign, and consequently the time when one can make the horoscope with truth. And not only does more time seem to elapse after parturition, when he who is sitting beside the woman in labour strikes the metallic plate, and next after the sound reaches the listener, that is, the person who has gone up to the elevated position; but also, while he is glancing around and looking to ascertain in which of the zodiacal signs is the moon, and in which appears each of the rest of the stars, it necessarily follows that there is a different position in regard of the stars, the motion150 Or, “but the motion…is whirled on with velocity.” Ps. xix. 3. of the pole whirling them on with incalculable velocity, before what is seen in the heavens151 This rendering of the passage may be deduced from Sextus Empiricus. The passage following obviously was in verse originally. It has been restored to its poetic form by Schneidewin. is carefully adjusted to the moment when the person is born.

[4] Τούτῳ τῷ λόγῳ ἀδύνατόν ἐστιν ἐκ τῆς συλλήψεως στῆσαι τὸν ὡροσκόπον. ἀλλ' οὐδ' ἐξ ἀποτέξεως. πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ ἄπορόν ἐστ(ι) τὸ πότε ῥηθήσεται ἀπότεξι(ν) εἶναι: ἆρά γε ὅταν ἄρξηται προκύπτειν εἰς τὸν θυραῖον [ἀέρα τὸ ἀποτικτόμενον,] ἢ ὅτα(ν) ὅλον ἐξίσχῃ, ἢ ὅταν εἰς τὴν γῆν [κατ]ενεχθῇ. [εἶτα] οὐδ' ἐν ἑκάστῳ τούτων δυνατόν ἐστι τὸν ἀκριβῆ τῆς ἀποτέξεως [καταλαβέσθαι ἢ] χρόνον ὁρίζειν. καὶ γὰρ διὰ παράστημα ψυχῆς καὶ δι' ἐπιτηδειότητα σώματος καὶ διὰ προαίρεσιν τῶν τόπων καὶ δι' ἐμπειρίαν μα[ίας] καὶ ἄλλας ἀπείρους προφάσεις οὐχ ὁ αὐτός ἐστι χρόνος καθ' ὃν προκύπτει τὸ τικτόμενον ῥαγέντων τῶν ὑμένων ἢ ἐκτὸς ὅλον γίνεται ἢ εἰς τὴν γῆν καταφέρεται, ἀλλ' ἄλλος ἐπ' ἄλλῳ. ὃν πάλιν μὴ δυνάμενοι ὡρισμένως καὶ ἀκριβῶς σταθμήσασθαι οἱ Χαλδαῖοι ἐκπεσοῦνται τοῦ δεόντως τὴν τῆς ἀποτέξεως ὥραν ὁρίζειν. Ὅτι μὲν οὖν ἐπαγγέλλονται ἐπὶ τοῖς τῆς ἀποτέξεως χρόνοις οἱ Χαλδ(αῖοι) τὸν ὡροσκόπον γινώσκειν, οὐκ ἴσασι δέ, ἐκ τούτων συμφανές: ὅτι δὲ οὐδὲ τὸ ὡροσκόπιον ἀπλανὲς αὐτοῖς ἐστι, πάρεστιν ἐπιλογίζεσθαι. ὅταν γὰρ λέγωσιν ὅτι ὁ παρεδρεύων τῇ ὠδινούσῃ ἅμα τῇ ἀποτέξει δίσκῳ σημαίνει τῷ ἐπὶ τῆς ἀκρωρείας ἀστεροσκοποῦντι Χαλδαίῳ, κἀκεῖνος εἰς οὐρανὸν ἀποβλέπων παρασημειοῦται τὸ ἀνίσχον ζῴδιον, τὸ μὲν πρῶτον ἐπιδείξομεν αὐτοῖς ὅτι τῆς ἀποτέξεως ἀορίστου τυγχανούσης, καθὼς μικρῷ πρότερον παρεστήσαμεν, οὐδὲ τῷ δίσκῳ ταύτην διασημαίνειν εὔκολον. εἶτ' ἔστω [καὶ] καταληπτὴν ὑπάρχειν τὴν ἀπότεξιν, ἀλλ' οὔτοι γε πρὸς ἀκριβῆ χρόνον σημειοῦσθαι ταύτην δυνατόν ἐστι: τὸν γὰρ τοῦ δίσκου ψόφον [ἐν] πλείονι χρόνῳ καὶ ἐν συχνῷ πρὸς αἴσθησιν δυναμένῳ μερίζεσθαι [καὶ] κινεῖσθαι συνέβη ἐπὶ τὴν ἀκρώρειαν. τεκμήριον δὲ [τὸ] ἐπὶ τῶν πόρρω δενδροτομούντων θεω(ρ)ούμενον: μετὰ γὰρ ἱκανὴν ὥραν τοῦ κατενεχθῆναι τὸν πέλεκυν ἐξακούεται ἡ φωνὴ τῆς πληγῆς, ὡς ἂν ἐν χρόνῳ πλείονι φθάνουσα ἐπὶ τὸν ἀκούοντα. καὶ διὰ τοῦτο τοίνυν οὐκ ἔστιν ἀκριβῶς τοῖς Χαλδαίοις τὸν χρόνον τοῦ ἀνίσχοντος ζῳδίου καὶ κατ' ἀλήθειαν ὡροσκοποῦντος λαμβάνειν. καὶ μὴν οὐ μόνον φανεῖται πλείων [ὁ] διελθὼν χρόνος, μετὰ τὴν ἀπότεξιν τοῦ παρεδρεύοντος τῇ ὠδινούσῃ κρούσαντος τῷ δίσκῳ, εἶτα μετὰ τὸ κροῦσαι ἀκούσαντος τοῦ ἐπὶ τῆς ἀκρωρείας, [ἀλλὰ] καὶ περισκοποῦντος [τούτου] καὶ βλέποντος ἐν τίνι τῶν ζῳδίων ἐστὶ σελήνη καὶ τῶν λοιπῶν ἀστέρων ἐν τίνι ἕκαστος, φαίνεται ἀναγκαῖον ἀλλοιότερον γενέσθαι τὸ περὶ τοὺς ἀστέρας διάθεμα, τῆς τοῦ πόλου κινήσεως ἀλέκ[τῳ] τάχει φερομένης πρὶν τηρητικῶς παραπλάσασθαι τῇ τοῦ γεννηθέντος ὥρᾳ [τὰ] κατ' οὐρανὸν βλεπόμενα.