Symposiacs

 Table of Contents

 Book I.

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book II.

 QUESTION I

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book III

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book IV.

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book V.

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book VI.

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book VII.

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book VIII.

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTION II.

 QUESTION III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 Book IX

 QUESTION I.

 QUESTIONS II. and III.

 QUESTION IV.

 QUESTION V.

 QUESTION VI.

 QUESTION VII.

 QUESTION VIII.

 QUESTION IX.

 QUESTION X.

 QUESTION XI.

 QUESTION XII.

 QUESTION XIII.

 QUESTION XIV.

 QUESTION XV.

QUESTION XIII.

A Moot-Point Out of the Third Book of Homer's Iliads.

PLUTARCH, PROTOGENES, GLAUCIAS, SOSPIS.

What question will you put them, said Protogenes? I will tell you, continued I, and let them carefully attend. Paris makes his challenge in these express words:-

Let me and valiant Menelaus fight For Helen, and for all the goods she brought; And he that shall o'ercome, let him enjoy The goods and woman; let them be his own.

And Hector afterwards publicly proclaiming this challenge in these plain words:-

He bids the Trojans and the valiant Greeks To fix their arms upon the fruitful ground; Let Menelaus and stout Paris fight For all the goods; and he that beats have all.

Menelaus accepted the challenge, and the conditions were sworn to, Agamemnon dictating thus:-

If Paris valiant Menelaus kills, Let him have Helen, and the goods possess; If youthful Menelaus Paris kills, The woman and the goods shall all be his. (See "Iliad," iii. 68, 88, 255, and 281.)

Now since Menelaus only overcame but did not kill Paris, each party hath somewhat to say for itself, and against the other. The one may demand restitution, because Paris was overcome; the other deny it, because he was not killed. Now how to determine this case and clear the seeming repugnancies doth not belong to philosophers or grammarians, but to rhetoricians, that are well skilled both in grammar and philosophy.

Then Sospis said: The challenger's word decides; for the challenger proposed the conditions, and when they were accepted, the opposite party had no power to make additions. Now the condition proposed in this challenge was not killing, but overcoming; and there was reason that it should be so, for Helen ought to be the wife of the bravest. Now the bravest is he that overcomes; for it often happens that an excellent soldier might be killed by a coward, as is evident in what happened afterward, when Achilles was shot by Paris. For I do not believe that you will affirm, that Achilles was not so brave a man as Paris because he was killed by him, and that it should be called the victory, and not rather the unjust good fortune, of him that shot him. But Hector was overcome before he was killed by Achilles, because he would not stand, but trembled and fled at his approach. For he that refuseth the combat or flies cannot palliate his defeat, and plainly grants that his adversary is the better man. And therefore Iris tells Helen beforehand,

In single combat they shall fight for you, And you shall be the glorious victor's wife. (2 Ibid. iii. 137.)

And Jupiter afterwards adjudges the victory to Menelaus in these words:

The conquest leans to Menelaus's side. (3 Ibid. iv. 13.)

For it would be ridiculous to call Menelaus a conqueror when he shot Podes, a man at a great distance, before he thought of or could provide against his danger, and yet not allow him the reward of conquest over him whom he made fly and sneak into the embraces of his wife, and whom he spoiled of his arms whilst he was yet alive, and who had himself offered the challenge, by the articles of which Menelaus now appeared to be the conqueror.

Glaucias subjoined: in all laws, decrees, contracts, and promises, those latest made are always accounted more valid than the former. Now the later contract was Agamemnon's, the condition of which was killing, and not only overcoming. Besides the former was mere words, the latter confirmed by oath; and, by the consent of all, those were cursed that broke them; so that this latter was properly the contract, and the other a bare challenge. And this Priam at his going away, after he had sworn to the conditions, confirms by these words:-

But Jove and other gods alone do know, Which is designed to see the shades below; ("Iliad," iii. 308.)

for he understood that to be the condition of the contract. And therefore a little after Hector says,

But Jove hath undetermined left our oaths, (Ibid. vii. 69.)

for the combat had not its designed and indisputable determination, since neither of them fell. Therefore this question doth not seem to me to contain any contrariety of law, since the former contract is comprised and overruled by the latter; for he that kills certainly overcomes, but he that overcomes doth not always kill. But, in short, Agamemnon did not annul, but only explain the challenge proposed by Hector. He did not change anything, but only added the most principal part, placing victory in killing; for that is a complete conquest, but all others may be evaded or disputed, as this of Menelaus, who neither wounded nor pursued his adversary. Now as, where there are laws really contrary, the judges take that side which is plain and indisputable, and mind not that which is obscure; so in this case, let us admit that contract to be most valid which contained killing, as a known and undeniable evidence of victory. But (which is the greatest argument) he that seems to have had the victory, not being quiet, but running up and down the army, and searching all about,

To find neat Paris in the busy throng, (Ibid. iii. 450.)

sufficiently testifies that he himself did not imagine that the conquest was perfect and complete. For when Paris had escaped he did not forget his own words:-

And which of us black fate and death design, Let him be lost; the others cease from war. (Iliad, iii. 101,)

Therefore it was necessary for him to seek after Paris, that he might kill him and complete the combat; but since he neither killed nor took him, he had no right to the prize. For he did not conquer him, if we may guess by what he said when he expostulated with Jove and bewailed his unsuccessful attempt:-

Jove, Heaven holds no more spiteful god than thou. Now would I punish Paris for his crimes; But oh! my sword is broke, my mighty spear, Stretched out in vain, flies idly from my hand! (Ibid. iii, 365.)

For in these words he confessed that it was to no purpose to pierce the shield or take the head-piece of his adversary, unless he likewise wounded or killed him.