32. R. What sayest thou concerning the rest? A. What? R. Because you see how much stands on my side. For we have remaining the Soul and God. And if these two are true for the reason that Truth is in them of the immortality of God no one doubts. But the mind is believed immortal, if Truth which cannot perish, is proved to be in it. Wherefore let as consider this last point, whether the body be not truly true, that is, whether there be in it, not Truth, but a certain image of Truth. For if even in the body, which we know to be perishable, we find such an element of truth, as there is in the sciences, it does not then so certainly follow, that the art of discussion is Truth, whereby all sciences are true. For true is even the body, which does not seem to have been formed by the force of argument. But if even the body is true by a certain imitation, and is on this account, not absolutely and purely true, there will then, perchance, be nothing to hinder the theory of argument from being taught to be Truth itself. A. Meanwhile let us inquire concerning the body; for not even when this shall have been settled, do I see a prospect of ending this controversy. R. Whence knowest thou what God purposes? Therefore attend: for I at least think the body to be contained in a certain form and guise, which if it had not, it would not be the body; if it had it in truth, it would be the mind. Or does the fact stand otherwise? A. I assent in part, of the rest I doubt; for, unless some figure is maintained, I grant that it is not a body. But how, if it had it in truth, it would be the mind, I do not well understand. R. Do you then remember nothing concerning the exordium of this book, and that Geometry of yours? A. Thou hast mentioned it to purpose; I do indeed remember, and am most willing to do so. R. Are such figures found in bodies, as that science demonstrates? A. Nay, it is incredible how greatly inferior they are convicted of being. R. Which of them, therefore, do you think true? A. Do not, I beg, think it necessary even to put that question to me. For who is so dull, as not to see that those figures which are taught in Geometry, dwell in Truth itself, or even Truth in these; but that those embodied figures, inasmuch as, they seem, so to speak, to tend towards these, have I know not what imitation of truth, and are therefore false? For now that whole matter which thou wert laboring to show, I understand.

CAPUT XVIII. An vere sit corpus.

32. R. Quid de caeteris dicis? A. Quid ? R. Quod vides mihi plurimum suffragari. Restat enim animus et Deus, quae duo si propterea vera sunt quod in his est veritas, de immortalitate Dei nemo dubitat. Animus autem immortalis creditur, si veritas quae interire non potest, etiam in illo esse probatur. Quare jam illud ultimum videamus, utrum corpus non sit vere verum, 0901 id est non in eo sit veritas, sed quasi quaedam imago veritatis. Nam si et in corpore, quod satis certum est recipere interitum, tale verum invenerimus, quale est in disciplinis, non continuo erit disputandi disciplina veritas, qua omnes verae sunt disciplinae. Verum est enim et corpus quod non videtur disputandi ratione esse formatum. Si vero et corpus imitatione aliqua verum est, et ob hoc non ad liquidum verum, nihil erit fortasse quod impediat disputandi rationem, quominus ipsa veritas esse doceatur. A. Interim quaeramus de corpore; nam ne hoc quidem cum constiterit, video istam controversiam terminatam. R. Unde scis quid velit Deus? Itaque attende: nam ego puto corpus aliqua forma et specie contineri, quam si non haberet, corpus non esset; si veram haberet, animus esset. An aliter putandum est? A. Assentior in parte, de caetero dubito; nam, nisi teneatur aliqua figura, corpus non esse concedo. Quomodo autem, si eam veram haberet, animus esset, non satis intelligo. R. Nihilne tandem de primi libri exordio, et de illa tua geometrica recordaris? A. Bene commemorasti; recordor prorsus, ac libentissime. R. Talesne in corporibus figurae inveniuntur, quales illa disciplina demonstrat? A. Imo incredibile est quanto deteriores esse convincuntur. R. Quas ergo istarum veras putas? A. Ne quaeso, etiam istuc me interrogandum putes. Quis enim mente tam caecus est qui non videat, istas quae in geometrica docentur, habitare in ipsa veritate, aut in his etiam veritatem; illas vero corporis figuras, siquidem quasi ad istas tendere videntur, habere nescio quam imitationem veritatis, et ideo falsas esse? Jam enim totum illud quod ostendere moliebaris intelligo.